In Conversation With Dev Hynes

In 2015, Dev Hynes called me to sing on Freetown Sound. I was still in college at the time, skipped class to record “Love Ya” and spent the summer performing with him at a few different music festivals. It was the pinnacle of my early development as an artist in the US. Being in his sphere led me to explore the works of Arthur Russell, Freetown Sound collaborator, Debbie Harry and a few others that would shape my experience in New York and beyond.

A few years later he called me to lend vocals to the song “Charcoal Baby” off his latest album, Negro Swan. It was a full circle moment from listening to “Champagne Coast” in my dorm room to being a part of one of the most influential albums of my generation. No matter where I am in the world, Dev’s music can score my experience—there are no limits! From the New York Philharmonic to Screwed Up Records and Tapes in Houston, Dev shows us what is possible. Recently, while I was back home in Negril, I spoke to the Dev about his own time in Jamaica, his proudest moments, and most importantly, his skincare routine.

Zuri: Let’s start in Jamaica because that’s where I’m from. I want to know what you were doing there!

Dev: Which time?

Z: All of them. How many times have you been there?

D: I’ve only been twice but I’m trying to spend a lot of my time there this year at some point. The first time is actually topical because I went with Solange to hang and work on music. And that music is now on When I Get Home.

Z: What song is it again?

D: “Dreams.” The second half of it came from there. The first half was done in L.A.

Z: Do you think being in Jamaica influences what you make there or is it just more of an energy to you?

D: I think anywhere influences people regardless. But I’m weird because I can work anywhere because I feel like it’s just inside. So it’s more being places where I can chill so I can access what’s inside rather than just get inspiration.

Z: Literally people will go to Jamaica and come back with one beat. Like the one beat that everyone uses that could be an afro-beat or could be Jamaican, or could be anything.

D: That could never happen to me. If I told people places that my songs were made they would be shocked. Because I never really work in that way. I already know what I’m doing, I’m just trying to find a place that will let me get to it. Like “Charcoal Baby,” half of it was done in New York and half of it was done in Osaka, Japan.

Z: I feel like you’re always making so it really doesn’t matter where you are. That was in my notes: I’m like, “I think Dev is just always eternally getting shit out.” Let’s talk about how we met. I was in drama school at the time… how did you even know me?

D: You might have just said ‘hi’ actually.

Z: I think I did say ‘hi’ in the teriyaki chicken spot. And then you just knew me. That was a crazy day for me because I was in a weird place where I didn’t have anywhere to live and I was in drama school and had dropped out of music school and I was like, “what the hell am I doing?” Obviously, I knew about your music but I feel like you just come to New York and it’s like a starter pack.

D: That’s the greatest thing I’ve ever heard about me [laughs].

Z: The day that I met you I was like “oh wow, I feel like I’m happy I didn’t go back to Jamaica and do nothing” because I wanted to be in New York, had fought for it, and it actually turned out to be worth it.

D: That’s tight. I actually miss that studio, it was a good vibe.

Z: That was a good place. What was it, Saint Marks?

D: I actually shared the space with Alyx Studios.

Z: Was that 2015?

D: 2016. Because Freetown Sound came out in 2016.

Z: That was my prime, Dev.

D: Don’t say that to me. I’m 33.

Z: You’re 33 but that’s cool. Once you past 30 that’s pretty fucking cool. That was also the time when I was not really singing and you told me to sing and I was like okay. That was definitely a pivotal moment for me, I always tell people that. You played a big role in that. It was affirming.

D: Oh, by the way, we’re in the middle of getting tattoos right now!

Z: I was like “what is that buzzing noise?”

D: Erin just got a music note and I was going to get either a music note or maybe the Nirvana smiley face.

Z: You have so much music. I always listen to your live [demos].

D: Ugh, all that music [laughs]. It might be out by the time this comes out.

Z: Really? Is it like a mixtape vibe?

D: Yeah, I’m gonna let people kind of decide what it is. I was trying to work out whether it was an album or a mixtape but I’m gonna just put it out and we’ll work it out. Because there’s another record but I want to put a bit more behind that.

Z: Is it stuff you started before Negro Swan or is it from all over?

D: I’m weird because nothing really works quite like that. I just have so much stuff and I’m always making new stuff and then I go back and dig in and redo. It’s kind of like a nonstop process. Like “Saint” from Negro Swan was made before Freetown Sound.

Z: So you’re really good at record keeping.

D: Well everything just overlaps. Some stuff just makes sense to go back to. This record is really just another record. What I tell people is that what I really do is make music. So the idea that every 3 years there are only 12 songs is really wild [laughs]. It’s an exercise in not being pressured—[that’s] what this record is.

Z: I saw you just performed with Mariah Carey. That shit was fire!

D: It was unreal. She hit me up to come out and she had never performed the song before. Slick Rick came and I came out and did the guitar shit and yeah. It was hard. I’m happy I know her, she’s incredible. She’s one of the greatest songwriters of all time and [to be] in a room with her working on music, I’m like on my fucking toes trying to keep up with her musically.

Z: I don’t think a lot of people would expect that.

D: But it’s crazy because she really is one of the biggest songwriters of all time. It shows the sexism in regard to female musicians because it’s like she’s literally written the biggest songs of all time.

Z: It’s so easy for people to meme people. No one thinks about anyone anymore.

D: I think it’s hard for people to give credit to musicians, especially if they also want to look beautiful.

Z: Well the stigma [says] ‘pretty musicians don’t write their music. They just get stuff written for them and perform it,’ which is also a huge thing. Like, even if you’re not writing, being able to present this idea to millions of people is very important. Do you listen to Bob Marley?

D: Have we ever talked about Bob Marley?

Z: I don’t think we really have.

D: I’m a fan of the first recording of The Wailers’ album that has the… Let me look at my phone real quick. I like the Jamaican version of “Catch a Fire.” In London they re-recorded, and I think that’s the version everyone knows, but throughout my life I’ve been obsessed with the original version.

Z: It’s a good album. It’s interesting. When I was younger I used to think I could talk to him and…

D: You probably could.

Z: I just get a lot of inspiration from his existence. Just what he represented. How he was and just wanting to live my life that way. Russell [Joba of the group Brockhampton] put me on to songs from Bob Marley that I didn’t even know. I just rediscovered one of my dad’s albums that was really good.

D: I think I saw you post it. I was like, “wait, did I show that to her?”

Z: You opened my eyes [laughs]. I just bought a keyboard today. I’ve never owned an instrument.

D: Really?

Z: Actually that’s a lie. I owned a guitar back in the day. But this is my first instrument purchase with my own money.

D: Congrats!

Z: Your scores are so good. I actually sampled something that you scored once. Something from Palo Alto, which was incredible by the way.

D: Was it “Soccer Field?”

Z: Either that or “April’s Daydream.”

D: That was probably the best thing I ever made, Palo Alto.

Z: You think that? It’s up there for me in terms of things you’ve made.

D: I put a lot of work into that. It’s funny because I made that around the time I made Cupid Deluxe. I was so fucking busy and going psycho.

Z: I know that you have written for people. I always know because I feel like your energy comes through so much in it. Do you like to write with people or do you prefer to write for yourself and then send it off to people you think can sing it?

D: I always write with people. It’s just different. I never just write a song and give it to someone—it’s only happened 4 times in my life. Usually, I write with them; that’s what I like to do. [Speaking to someone else]: Hey, do you mind if I fuck up this Palo Santo?